Talk:Zarbon
So... what was Zarbon's role in Frieza's genocide of the Saiyans? I'm asking because there's conflicting information between Zarbon's page and this page in regards to his role in the massacre. On this page, it explicitly states that Zarbon advised Frieza to wipe out the Saiyans before they became a threat. On the other hand, Frieza's page says that "Against the advice of Zarbon, Frieza plans to wipe out the saiyan race", which implies that Zarbon was actually against destroying Planet Vegeta, or the saiyans for that matter.I blocked those comments out until we reached a conclusion as to which was more accurate. If anyone can explain which was more accurate, I'll be sure to reinstate it, and change the other one. :"Against his advice" is a strong way to put it. In the flashback-backstory for King Vegeta in Dragon Ball Z, after the king and his soldiers are killed aboard Frieza's ship, Zarbon asks Frieza if slaying the Saiyans is really necessary now that their leader has been removed and the heir to the throne is in their custody (he doesn't give reasons for why it isn't totally necessary, but for the sake of explanation these are the circumstances as far as the plot goes). [[User:Vixen Windstorm|'Storm']] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|'talk']] –''' [[User:Vixen Windstorm#Projects|'''projects]] 01:18, 23 January 2009 (UTC) ::Ah, good recollection Storm. I'd forgotten about that. Now that you mention that, I don't think "against his advice" is a very precise choice of words here. Maybe I'll work on a phrase that might fit this since it does seem to be causing some confusion with readers. Templarion Prime 03:57, 24 January 2009 (UTC) :::That's in the English dub. I'd like to point out that in the original dub, it was Zarbon who suggested that the Saiyans be eradicated to Frieza directly. In the English dub, they changed the wording to "But, how would you like to go up against that bunch on a blue moon?" meaning the Saiyans were growing too powerful as a combined unit and they needed to be dealt with (eradicated). Frieza made much of his decisions based on Zarbon's advice. And later in an episode in the Frieza saga, Frieza says he needs to execute them because "monkey see, monkey do". Zarbon must have also suggested the execution of King Vegeta because of how he replied: "Is it necessary now that King Vegeta's out of the way?" meaning King Vegeta posed the greatest threat because of his power level of around 10,000. And the further removal of Bardock's team at the hands of Dodoria further meant full mission completion of the eradication of the strongest living saiyans. The popping of planet vegeta was just icing on the cake to prevent other powerful saiyans from arising and posing a threat. btw Zarbon, Dodoria, and Cui are my favorite characters in the entire series, so if there's anything that anyone needs to understand furthermore, let me know. - PrinceZarbon 16:13, 18 February 2009 (UTC) Transformation I know video games aren't the top priority for canonicity, but the Character Reference of Budokai Tenkaichi 3 explains that "transformation is his true, monstrous form ... Though he had hidden his despised true shape for many years, in danger of being overwhelmed by Vegeta on Planet Namek, Zarbon put aside his vanity and transformed. ... Though his powers are increased in his true, monstrous state, Zarbon cannot bear to be seen in such a hideous form. Therefore, very few people have witnessed his transformation, and even fewer have lived to tell about it." Do any guides such as the Daizenshuu corroborate this? (Since I'm pretty sure this bit wouldn't have been explained in either dub.) [[User:Vixen Windstorm|'Storm']] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|'talk']] –''' [[User:Vixen Windstorm#Projects|'''projects]] 15:39, 19 February 2009 (UTC) :Heya mate. It's nice of you to bring this up. Much of the stuff written in the Budokai games is not factual. In fact, there's a laughable account in the Budokai games where it says that Salza is from Jeice's race, whilst he is not...and that he has a rivalry with Captain Ginyu...which he doesn't. The best resource for any information is indeed the original manga. And if we take the original manga into account for Zarbon's reference, then it is best to rely on the information ascribed to him there. Simply, it describes him as a lover of beauty. But he hides a demonic transformation and he is a mysterious warrior. It's not well to assume that the beast form his his "true" form, because it isn't. There is no "true" form. It's merely his second form, as Frieza has a few forms. Also, it's important to note that Frieza doesn't want to transform to his pinnacle because his power is too radical to control. This is not the case for Zarbon. He simply doesn't want to transform because his second reptilian form disfigures his look (appearance). That's another very important point here. So to say that his monstrous form is his "true" form is a very wrong assumption. It is the form in which his highest power lies, but it's as true a form as his first. As the character himself states: "Are you certain you want to see my true power? I don't think you can handle it." Hence, this being a reference to his true power being unleashed in his second form, does not mean that is his true appearance, merely his second. Also, Frieza's changeling ancestry doesn't have a "true" form either. They merely have four (or 5 if counting Cooler's) forms. None of them are "true". They are all progressions and forms one upon the other. On another note, a factual statement is his own reference to the beauty and the beast. He himself classifies himself as a beauty and a beast, referencing his two forms, and this is perhaps the MOST accurate representation in the series run (in all languages). - PrinceZarbon 20:05, 19 February 2009 (UTC) ::I think when we speak of a "true" form, we're referring to the character's original form. In that sense, Frieza's true form was his final transformation. (He developed the weaker transformations to conserve energy.) While material from the games certainly doesn't have the canonicity of the manga or anime, they are still covered here. That said, we should at least make a note (in the proper context) of what games say about the character and his transformations. And unless a more authoritative source conflicts with what was said in a game, it doesn't seem like we have any right to directly contradict the game in the article. That's my thought anyway. -- 10:09, 21 February 2009 (UTC) :::No, we shouldn't toss aside the information from the games. However, we should maintain and separate the information, not include it in the picture references and the "appearance" and "origin" sections for the characters. That information, as it is non-canonical, should be kept in either the section in relation to the game, and/or the trivia section. Those are the two best places to reference information such as that. ::::But the fact that Zarbon doesn't have a "true" form, is what I brought up specifically. Frieza doesn't have a "true" form either. He has 4 forms, of which the last holds his true power. That isn't to say that his other forms aren't true. They are an ascension one unto the other. They simply cloak the power of his final form. Also, I mentioned that the reason behind their cloaking is different. Frieza does it to conceal the zenith of his strength. Zarbon does it to conceal his gruesome look with a beautiful camouflage. It's a big parallel. - PrinceZarbon 15:46, 21 February 2009 (UTC) I don't think we're in disagreement about anything; I just meant to clarify that the previous references to a "true" form were probably speaking about an original form. (At least that's the impression I got.) And obviously, every character has an original form of some sort. Frieza's is his final form; AFAIK Zarbon's is unknown in manga/anime canonicity, but a game states that it's his stronger, monstrous form, so we would mention that in the proper context (game or trivia section, like you said). That sound right? -- 07:51, 23 February 2009 (UTC) :Yup. Sounds about right. All the info and trivia from the game we can keep in the game/trivia section my dear comrade. - PrinceZarbon 15:10, 23 February 2009 (UTC) ::Wait, I thought the Rivalry between Ginyu and Salza was something Shonen Jump made up, not Budokai? Also, didn't Vegeta imply that Frieza's fourth form was his true form? :::No. The implication was that his final form held his "true" power, not his true form. Also, Shonen Jump's information also belongs in the trivia/game section. Anything beyond the published manga and televised anime is second-hand to the extent that it's non-canonical; hence it belongs in the trivia section. But for informational purposes, the Salza heritage was noted in the Budokai games. - PrinceZarbon 04:03, 3 March 2009 (UTC) :::Like was mentioned before, if by true form you mean original form, then yes, Frieza's final form was his original form. He developed the weaker ones to conserve energy. -- 09:11, 3 March 2009 (UTC)